Volume - 10 : Issue - 2

Published : April - June 2011

Group : Personalities


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Sai Sadhram Saheb

by Ram Jawhrani

The exodus of Sindhi Hindus from Sindh half a century ago is not the first catastrophe to befall Sindh. There have been several in past, in 8th, 11th, 16th, 18th and now in 20th century. Victims of circumstances, Sindhi Hindus had to overnight bid adieu to their homeland and migrate elsewhere. However, wherever migrated they have always scaled great heights with their hard work, perseverance and intelligence. Their achievement and success has not been restricted only to themselves but has always included neighbours and well wisher also. Due to this trait, the Sindhis have always been respected and honoured all over the globe.

Just as it was said the Sun never said on the British Empire, in the same way it is always above the head of a Sindhi, in some or other corner of the world. The other quality about Sindhis is that they have always loved and been faithful to the land that offered them shelter – be it their homeland or the place they make their livelihood. They make bow their heads at the altars of temples, mosques and gurudwaras, but they always revere their homeland.

Today, we have with us one such personality who has always been in with his homeland – Sindh. The incarnation of the century, Huzuri Roop Sadhram Saheb is the Head of the Holy pilgrimage “Sai Satramdas Dham” at Raherki Saheb, Sindh, Pakistan; where his said that all you wish for his fulfilled.

Interview with Sai Sadhram

R. Jawhrani:    Sacho Satram! To begin with can you tell us in whish part of Sindh were you born and in which year?

Sai Sadhram:   I was born in upper Sindh, in Sukkur district, in Ghotki taluka, in Reharki Saheb, which is also the birth place of Saint Kanwar Ram.

R. Jawhrani:    I believe that at a very young age, when you just a six days old, your mother passed away. Who took care of you like Yashoda Mata and brought you up?

Sai Sadhram:   My maternal grandmother who used to stay in Khushkar village, in Mirpur taluka, took me with her. My maternal aunts had children of their own. So I was brought up by maternal grandparents. I stayed with them till the age of 10. After that I returned to my father.

R. Jawhrani:    Where were you educated?

Sai Sadhram:   I did my Matriculation from Reharki, Intermediate from Shikarpur, B.Com from Sukkur, M.A. from Shikarpur and Law from Khairpur.

R. Jawhrani:    After completing your education, what did you decided to do? What were your ambitions?

Sai Sadhram:   just like everyone, I too wanted to be a successful in life. Two opportunities came my way. One was to joint custom department, which would mean I had to be in service, and I was interested in having my own business. The other was administrative post of Assistant Commissioner which was also vacant. At that time the post of Sub-Divisional Assistant Commissioner was a joint post. Although now judiciary and administration are two separate entities, at that time they were combined. So I took that post and initially I was posted at Shikarpur.

R. Jawhrani:    When and how did you get interested in spirituality?

Sai Sadhram:   Right from the beginning this has been our ancestral inheritance. With the grace of the almighty since my childhood I was brought up in religious environment. Even my maternal grandparents who are landlords use to lead a pious life. So from the beginning I was familiar which prayers, devotion and meditation. Since childhood I was more inclined towards religion rather than in sports and games.

R. Jawhrani:    could you shed some light on the life of Sai Khotaram Saheb?

Sai Sadhram:   In the beginning Sai Khotaram Saheb laid the foundation at Reharki for Sai Satramdas. His life consisted of serving humanity and praying to God. Whenever he used to sit for prayers and sing the praises of God, his voice contained such magic that everyone, not only humans but even birds and animals would be spellbound, stand still and listen to his melodious prayers. You can say that with the blessing of God he was well connected with all living beings and nature.

R. Jawhrani:    Let us know some more about the birth of Sai Satramdas.

Sai Sadhram:   When Sai Satramdas was born, he had a smile on his face. For the initial three days he didn’t take anything, neither a drop of his mother’s milk nor anything else. But there was a constant smile on his face. Usually when a child born, it cries or makes some sound, but when Sai Satramdas was born the first sound that came out of his throat was that of ‘OM’.

They showed him to various people at that time, but everyone found him to be healthy and a normal child. Since he came a messenger of God, in spite of not taking anything for first three days he was in good health. At the time when Sai Satramdas born, his father Sai Khotaram Saheb was in deep meditation – Samadhi for three continuous days. So after three days when he came out of Samadhi, they showed him the child who was not ready to take anything. He took the child in his hands and said that he is a messenger of God and wants to convey this message that you come into this world not only for eating, drinking, sleeping and merry making but for praying, devotion and service to the Lord Almighty. That can be achieved by meditation i.e. Naam, Dhyaan, and Simran. Therefore this child first wants to attach to the Naam and the Lord and then want to come into this world. So that while living here he goes not get attached to this world but want to remain detached and above it. Sai Khotaram Saheb thanked God and considered himself quite fortunate that such a saintly child was born in his household. After thanksgiving Sai Khotaram Saheb initiated the child by uttering the Naam in his ears. Only did the Sai Satramdas start taking his mother’s feed.

R. Jawhrani:    Now please tell us about his naming ceremony.

Sai Sadhram:   During the naming ceremony everyone was wondering for a suitable name for the child. At that time one small child was reading Sukhmani Saheb. He read that line “Jiske man paarbrahm ka niwas, tishka naam Satramdas,” which means in whose mind dwells the Lord, his name is Satramdas. At that very moment he was named SATRAMDAS.

R. Jawhrani:    When did you reach Raherki Saheb Dham?

Sai Sadhram:   I was born on 25th October 1963 and in 1973 I reached Raherki Saheb Dham.

R. Jawhrani:    Who established Raherki Saheb Dham?

Sai Sadhram:   Raherki Saheb Dham was established by Sai Khotaram Saheb. Whenever he travelled, he carried his meals with him. He used to run that Dham with is own hard earned money and would never accept anything from anyone. He would donate anything received by him instantaneously. It is said that whatever he uttered from his mouth would occur.                                                 
Even the birth of Sai Kanwar Ram took place because of the blessing of Sai Khotaram. Once while visiting Jarwaar Sai Khotaram stayed there for a few days. Tirthbai and Tarachand (parents of Sai Kanwar Ram) used to do sewa over there by filling drinking water in earthen pots of the people. One day Sai Khotaram asked Tarachand “You are doing wonderful services, do you have any expectation.” Tarachand replied “Since long we have been trying to have a child. We have visited many doctors, pears, fakirs, etc. but haven’t been successful. So kindly bless us with a child.” Sai Khotaram smiled and said, “Since you have filled two pots you will get two sons with the blessing of God.” Tarachand was ecstatic and said “We asked just for one, but you have blessed us with two. So kindly give us the first one and we shall offer the second one to you.”

Exactly after 10 months twin were born to them. It has been a custom in Sindh that whenever twins are born, the second one is named Jaado if it’s a male and Jaadi if it’s a female. This custom is followed by the Hindus as well as Muslim of Sindh. This was a like a mark of recognition that the siblings are twins. They named the second son Jaado, while they waited for the Sai Khotaram to come and name the first one, since it was due to his blessing that twins were born. After one month when Sai Khotaram Saheb Came to Jarwaar, they took the child to him. They said that he is your child so kindly give him a suitable name. Sai Khotaram while taking the child in his arms said “He has come because of the sewa done by you, so even he will do a lot of sewa to mankind. While living in this world he will above it just like a lotus which stays in water but is above it. Hence he will be caller Kanwar.”

R. Jawhrani:    Are religious and social service activities still carried out at Raherki Saheb Dham?

Sai Sadhram:   Yes, whatever activities that were stared by Sai Khotaram Saheb, Sai Satramdas, and Sai Kanwar Ram are still carried out. In fact all of them dedicated not only their lives but also their families and children in the service and benevolence of humanity. These activities are in the filed of education, healthcare etc. There are schools run by institution. Health camps are organized as well the clinic remains open for 24 hours. The very first heath camp in Sindh, Pakistan was organized by Raherki Saheb Dham for Hepatitis B which was offered free of cost to everyone. Eyes operations are carried out not only in Raherki Saheb Dham but also in other cities and towns. A coaching class is also run totally free for the students who qualify for M.B.B.S exams or for Engineering where till date students have been enrolled in hundreds since the time of its inspection.

R. Jawhrani:    With this religious background, how would you describe God Almighty?

Sai Sadhram:   This world is the image of the God. This can be divided between two parts, one is construction and other is destruction (Pralaya). At the time of destruction i.e. Pralaya, the entire universe becomes one with the Lord. And when he wants to appear he comes forward. Therefore in each and every bit and speak we see him. If you go to see, firstly, we always want profit no loss. Secondly, if we have 4 businesses, and are making good profit in three them, while fourth one incurring loss, we still not remember the profit of three businesses but will keep cribbing about the loss I fourth one. And then we try to do everything to cover up that loss. Therefore how much ever we get, we always feel it is less. We keep a wealthy person as our icon and feel that once we become wealthy like him we shall be happy ever after. But when we do become like him, we have become a 10 time more greedy by that time. This is because we have emerged from that Lord, so till the time we don’t merge back in him, we won’t be at peace or satisfied.

On the world map we search for our country we may able to find it, then going further if we try to find our city we may find that also. But then still going on further we try to find the district, taluka, lane and the house that we live in, we won’t be able to do so. We will see that we just don’t exist on that map. Therefore how much so ever we get in this world we feel we haven’t got anything all. When we look at the saints, hermits, Sadhus, Darveshs etc. we will see that even the clothes on there body are not their own but we still we go to them with the expectation receiving something from them. If you view this from a worldly point of view it seems that a wealthy person is going to the pauper and asking him for a donation. We have much more bank balance than the saint, better abode to stay, much better food to eat, but in spite of all this we go to him and beg.

R. Jawhrani:    This is because they have the wealth of blessing with them.

Sai Sadhram:   Well, when we beg, he lovingly asks, what is it that you seek? And so many times even before asking he gives us everything that we want. The fact is that through their devotion and meditation they have attained the Lord. Now since they have attained the Lord then automatically the entire universe is at their feet.

This is just like once there was this King who was going on a journey abroad. He asked his four wives what gifts he should bring up them. One told him that she wanted nice clothes; the third one said that she wanted the fine food while fourth one said that she only wanted him back safely. One his return he gave the requested gifts to the three queens and himself went to the fourth one. Now the one, who has the King with her, will automatically have the entire kingdom to herself.

In similar manner these saints attain God through their prayers and devotion. Then automatically the whole universe us at their feet. When we go to them we find that they might not be having proper clothes also to cover themselves but still we always find them in a happy state. On the other hand while we have everything, we feel that we don’t have everything. Now this thinking is not bad that we don’t have anything and we always feel that we are beggars and go to this saint beg. This can be called our positive thinking. This is because we will never be satisfied till we have achieved the entire universe. We will never be at ease or peace till we have attained the entire cosmos because we have the emerged from it. Therefore just like we try to cover up for the loss in the fourth business so also we try to cover up our loss in spirituality by bowing our head at the feet of the saints. So till we haven’t attended God we shall never be satisfied. In this race of attending God sometimes we may lose the way, but still we have that quest to attain Him. Therefore when we go to the saints and ask for something they lovingly and readily give us what we seek because they have the entire universe with them.

R. Jawhrani:    This is because these saints are the ones who are close to God.

Sai Sadhram:   Not only close but have become one with the Lord.

R. Jawhrani:    I have heard that some saints don’t allow the devotees to touch their feet, because they fell that their vibrations will enter the devotees. Is this a fact or a myth?

Sai Sadhram:   This is a fact. But they should allow the devotees to touch their feet so that can benefit from those vibrations. When the devotees benefit the saint will benefit much more. The saint shouldn’t be afraid the taking over sins of other. This is because if he does so then that sin gets converted into a virtue.

Here I would like to narrate a story. Once there was a very honest and religious King. After he died, he appeared before Dharmrai who told him that you have done all good deeds on earth hence you are entitle to enter in Heaven, but due to some minor mistake you have just pass through Hell before entering Heaven. As soon as he entered hell, there was a great change in it. The atmosphere become cool, the vibration changed and all around peace prevailed.  All the inmates felt that it was due to this King that all this are happened. They requested him to stay some more time so that they could avail of the calming and cooling effects of the wonderful atmosphere which now existed in hell. The King felt that if just by his being here all are benefited so much, it was better to stay in hell for the benefit of all. The angles told him tat since he has to go to heaven he should move on. The King refused saying “since all of them are benefited by my presence here, I will remain here or else take them also in heaven along with me.” They replied if all them go to the Heaven then the King would have to forgo the fruit of his virtues and good deeds of them. The King immediately denoted all his virtues in there favour and all they went to Heaven. After all had gone to Heaven, the angles requested him to come to Heaven. The King said that he didn’t have any virtues left with him and hence wasn’t entitled to enter to Heaven. The angles said that all that you are entitled to enter Heaven. So whenever in the name of the Lord one denotes something, God gives him much more in return.

R. Jawhrani:    What is Karma?

Sai Sadhram:   There are 3 types of Karmas. One is Karni, Karamgat and Purab likhe Jo Bhaag. One is the Karma that we do; the other is to participate in what is going on around and third is the fruits of our previous births.

R. Jawhrani:    Do you believe in life after birth?

Sai Sadhram:   It is not only a belief but a fact. I shall give you an example. Many times we meet friends or unknown people, and after meeting tem we feel as though we had never separated. There is so much of all between us. Sometimes even while travelling when we see someone, we feel as though we have seen him / her somewhere and feel like going ahead and talking to them. But the fact is that we have never met that person. This happens because of our relationship with that person in previous births. We are drowning to that person because our soul wants to meet them. On the other hand while seeing some person we should not look at him. Either he should get away or we should move away from him. This is because may be in the previous births he might have harassed us.
I will give you an example of an incident in India. In 1990 a girl was born in Delhi. I am narrating this from the stories appearing in Pakistani newspapers and the books published here in Pakistan. As she became old and started speaking, she said them she didn’t belong there, and was from Varanasi. She started giving references and addresses in Varanasi. They took her over there. As soon as he reached station, she not only went to her house, but also narrated the name of her husband, sons, grandchildren etc. and started speaking in the local language. This proved that there are many instances of previous births.

R. Jawhrani:    Is it because of her virtues in the previous life that she could remember everything about this life.

Sai Sadhram:   It could be a due to her past Karmas. But many a time the circumstances so created by the unknown forces of nature compel us to believe that all this does exist.

R. Jawhrani:    Now coming bake to the three types of Karmas.

Sai Sadhram:   Yes. The Karma that the person performing and what is he thinking while doing so; all those thoughts affect our Karmas much more than an actual Karma. Therefore we are advised by the saints to purify our thoughts and thinking process. Along with this physical body we have also astral bodies. These thoughts go out of our physical body through the breath and reach of astral body. If our thoughts are good then our astral body will also be healthy and pure. But if they are bad then our astral body will effected. If we are short tempered then our astral body will full of anger. These astral bodies keep on roaming in the air. Therefore the person who had a good thoughts will have good astral bodies come and surrounded the person who is short tempered. Similarly bad astral bodies come and surrounded the person with bad thoughts.

Whenever we do a good deed we do it in front of everybody and are quite proud of it also. But in actual it gets done on its own and internally be wonder, “How come this was done by me.” When we are angry we don’t even realize what we are saying and uttering or insulting someone. Only when we become calm do we realize, “Oh! How come I said this word?” and we regret a lot. Sometimes we do not commit mistakes, sins and wrong doings. Then later when we realize we start blaming ourselves, how did my intellect allow doing so? Sometimes we say we not done this at all. Maybe someone else made me do this at the time I was not conscious. Now who is this someone else? It is those astral bodies. So when our thoughts are clear and good, good astral bodies surround us. The energy of our good and positive thoughts along with the energy of the good astral bodies makes us do good deeds and vice versa.

In this world when a thief steals something or murderer murders someone, not only the thief and murderer will be punished but also the people who asked him to commit that crime. In a similar manner if our thoughts are good and positive, then we shall be surrounded by the good astral bodies that will enable us to do good deeds. So the benefit of the good deeds will be shared not only by the astral bodies but also by us. Similarly the astral bodies formed out of our negative and bad thoughts will go and compel the bad person to commit sins. So the punishment of those sins will not only be given to that person but also to us, since we are also a party in his or her crime. Therefore time and again the saints tell us to purify our thoughts.

R. Jawhrani:    You just now mentioned that all Karmas bear fruit. Is there a calculation for that? For example if I do 5 good Karmas and 3 bad Karmas then I am entitled to 5 minus 3 fruit of 2 good Karmas.

Sai Sadhram:   Everyone has reaped the fruit of his / her own Karmas. Sai Satramdas Saheb used to say that every human being gets the fruits of his Karmas, but blessing and curse are two such things which are much higher than Karmas. Sometimes the blessing of just one pious one, wipe out the sins of crores lives. In a similar manner sometime just one curse also wipes always all your virtues and good deeds. Therefore whenever we do good deeds we get blessing which helps us in wiping out our bad Karmas. Hence all human like to seek blessing but want to remain away from curses. A person how to ever successful and having all that one desires in the world, will still bow heads before saints to seek more and more blessing. Even a bad, arrogant, troublesome person tries to be away from curses. The Almighty God has naturally made us in such a manner that we always try to seek blessing which help us in wiping out our bad Karmas.

R. Jawhrani:    Today, most of the people are dejected with life.  They are prisoners of there desires and aspirations. Every moment a new desire comes up in the mind. In such a situation how can a person get closer to God?

Sai Sadhram:   Nowadays, first of all we shouldn’t think of these desires (which make us commit sins) as powerful. One should understand that just a tiny lamp is enough to eradicate darkness however strong it might be. So howsoever strong this bad vices, negative thoughts, desire etc. maybe, just by trying little hard, all of them vanish in no time at all. When we are stressed, depressed, miserable, disheartened, at such times even a false smile gives us 70% relief. In similar manner in just for a little while if we sit in prayers, meditation and contemplate on the Lord name, the Every Merciful Lord will put us back on the right track and pull us towards him away from this distressing world.

R. Jawhrani:    It is said only those who are distressed and unsuccessful in life come and find relief in Satsang. Is this true?

Sai Sadhram:   No. A person who is successful by rightful means gets more and more blessings of God. If you go to see, today a man has made progress so at the same rate charitable deeds have also increased. It is not necessary that only the dejected ones come to Satsang. Everyone has a mind of his own. Comparatively nowadays, many more people are visiting holy places, there is more faith in God, more and more charitable activities are taking place. Today if you see in the temples, you find crores of people standing in queues. Among them are not only the poor, but also the wealthy and successful ones.

R. Jawhrani:    It is seen that evil is prevailing since centuries. Our saints, hermits, religious people have trying to eradicated evil, but till now it has not been wiped out. Should we keep trying to eradicate it?

Sai Sadhram:   We can’t call it evil. But the mercy and blessing showered of humans are enough to seek the Lord. We believe there are 84 lakh species. This means 84 lakh types of temperaments and habits. Each living being has a unique type of character. For examples a lion’s character is bravery, a snake’s character is always move to zig-zag way, a chameleon’s character is to change colours, a crow’s nature is to caw all the time, a dog’s character is to bark, a nightingale’s nature is to sing sweetly etc.

A human being is the sum total of these 84 lakh types of natures, all of them within him. Out of these 84 types of natures 83, 99,999 characters are of the other livings creatures, while he has only one character of his own. Many a time we see that humans are compared with other creatures. For example when someone accomplishes some great deed we say ‘He is brave like a lion’; when a person goes on blabbering we say ‘He is barking like a dog’; when someone speak nicely we say ‘His voice is melodious like an nightingales’; if a person keep changing his words every now and then we say ‘He is changing colour like a chameleon’. If we took at the other creatures they follow only their unique character, but human can adopt any type of nature. All creatures eat only what they are supposed to, but human can eat most of the types of food, whether it suitable for him or not. Cosmos has made it possible for living beings to attain salvation only during human birth.

When all those 84 lakhs types character were put in him, it was done with the purpose that he could distinguish between what is good and evil. God has given human an intellect. While doing so he has given us more of the good side. Therefore a person conducts a good deed he does openly and front of everyone; he fills well in ding it and gets positive vibration within himself. But when he commits sins or a wrong doing he does so without anyone seeing him; if it becomes visible he tries to cover up. Even after that if it is not hidden and becomes visible then the person says, ‘Oh, I have not done this, someone must have made me do it.’

Intellect is given to us so that we can distinguish properly and our humanity shines out. After passing through each and every of these 84 lakhs species we have got this human life. In Sindh a game was played where a few people would pull a rope from one side while just one would pull it from other side. If those few would win, it would be said ‘It’s Ok they were a few of them to knock down just a single.’ But that single person would win knocking off 3 or 4 of them, and then all would applaud him. In the same manner if a person who defeats all these 83, 99,999 species and overcomes them, then we termed his a Saint, godly person, angle etc. So a person has to prevail over all these 83, 99, 999 species and only then will he become one. When he becomes one he will be able to concentrate.

R. Jawhrani:    Is this called salvation?

Sai Sadhram:   No. This is not called salvation. After concentrating when he becomes one with the Lord that is called Salvation. I’ll give you a simple example of Salvation. Our soul has emerged from that Lord. Since it has emerged from Him, it has his form. So if the Lord is pure so its image (our soul) will also be pure. When the child is born, he his like parents. Whatever respect and honour the parents get, the same is accorded to the child also. What he does of himself in a future is a different topic altogether. Some children become so great that they not only make their parents proud but also become an example for the future generations to be follow; while some children can’t keep up to the honour and respect of their families.

One of the attributes of God is that he never dies. So when God doesn’t die, then how will his image (our soul) die? Therefore our soul is eternal. It keeps wandering in this cycle of births and deaths, but it never perishes. When the soul enters in this world it gives three companions mind, intellect and Karma. Our mind is the various good and bad thoughts we think about. Intellect means the brain or understanding power through which think – will this act of mine be good or bad; will it be profitable or will be there be a loss in it. After the intellect the act that we do becomes our Karma.

When a child is born, it is completely innocent and naïve, therefore we say, that child is pure; he is the image of God etc. But we don’t say all this for a grown up. As the child grows up he sees his surroundings and start grasping everything. His own thinking along with the thoughts he has taken up from all around become so mixed up with each other just like a curry, in which we don’t know exactly what all ingredients are there. Forget about others, he doesn’t have confidence in his own self about whether he is right or wrong.

 When our soul emerged from the Lord, it was as pure as the Lord as it was in his image. But because of the mind, intellect and Karmas, it gets so entangled in this world that it becomes difficult to escape. We often says this is my hand, but I am not the hand; this is my eye, but I am not the eye; this is my stomach, but I am not the stomach; this is my leg, but I am not the leg; this whole body is mine, but I am not the body. Sometimes we say my whole body is burning due to heat. If my body is burning, I am not the body, and then I am someone else. Who am I? Or else I should have said I am burning. So my eyes, hands, legs, stomach can be compared to my television, my air - cooler etc. in my house.

When it come from God our soul was pure, but along with mind, intellect and Karma in this world it thought that is physical body is everything. It forgot about his original self. Therefore during the entire life only took utmost care of its physical body and kept on beautifying in day and night. Ultimately this physical body will turn to ashes on day. But for the purpose for which it had become to develop itself spiritually, it did nothing. Hence it kept wandering in this cycle of birth and death because it lost its memory. But again he started praying, meditating and contemplating on the same of the Lord, the veils of the mind, intellect and Karma were taken off. After removing of these veils it could have the glimpse of God. Its condition is like a person who has lost his memory due to an accident on the street and when his memory is lost, they try to take him to all the familiar place and people. And when his memory is restored his become a same as he was before. So also our soul becomes the same after having the glimpse of the Lord. Due to these glimpses of God, our soul is purified and it recovers its memory lost due to mind, intellect and karmas. Then it realizes that I am the image of God and a part of Him. When it becomes pure it merges back into the Lord. This is called salvation.

Therefore the prayer, pooja etc. that we conduct for the saints as similar as we do for God.  This is because the saints have merged with the Lord and become one with him. While performing a pooja we keep small jar of water. This is because we pray to the ocean. While praying we can’t bring the ocean to our house, so we bring a part of it. A son is considered to be apart of his father, a daughter is considered to be apart of her mother, daughter-in-law of her mother-in-law. So if father has no attend some function, he can send his son in his place, the mother can send her daughter and the mother-in-law can send his daughter-in-law. After the pooja is over we take that small jar to the ocean and empty it. All the offering made to that a small jar offered to the ocean. In the similar manner, saints are part of God, hence whatever offering are done to them it is to be considered offering made to God. So the pooja of saints are considered to be pooja of God. And when saints are satisfied and happy with our pooja then even just a small spec of the blessing make our life successful. We say “Gurudev Bhagwan Ki Jai.” It means are singing the praises of Gurudev who are attained salvation, so that his blessings are showered on us and even we are able to reach the same state. The word ‘Bhagwan’ actually doesn’t refer to God. ‘Bhagwan’ means fortunate. So that person who is so fortunate to have achieved salvation is called ‘Bhagwan’.

R. Jawhrani:    You mentioned that only after coming in contact with saints do we get to know about the path to salvation. This means without Guru we will cannot achieve salvation. Could you describe a true Guru? How did w search for a true master?

Sai Sadhram:   A Guru is the one whom we feel like bowing our head to. Both the Guru as well as disciple has their respective duties. It is the duty of the disciple to consider that everything belongs to the Guru, his home, family, wealth etc. The duty of the Guru is not to take even a single penny of his disciple. Both should perform their respective duties truthfully. A Guru cannot initiate his disciple until he is authorized by God to do so. This is the duty of Guru. Just like only one policeman controls a huge crowd. Even he is human being like all, but the difference is in the uniform given through the distinguished authority to perform a particular duty. The actual power is attributed so that uniform, not to the person. In similar manner, when Guru receives the power from God, the more he’ll prosper. But if he performs the tasks which he not authorized to, then he will keep wandering and so will his disciples.    

R. Jawhrani:    It is said a person is a captive of his nature. Does that mean a person searches for the Guru as per his nature?

Sai Sadhram:   A person’s nature and fate both move simultaneously. The purpose of nature is that along with the time world also changes. We have a common complaint that the past age was very good age.

R. Jawhrani:    A stingy person fells that the Guru who doesn’t charges a penny is good; while a person who eats non-vegetarian food considers that Guru to be good who doesn’t stop him from eating non-vegetarian food. So what will we termed this as nature as fate?

Sai Sadhram:   This will be termed as fate. The nature of a person also depends on the power of his Guru possesses. Can that Guru wipe of all karmas of his disciples? If so then he will attain salvation and so will his disciples. Just as knife in a doctor’s hand can save a life, while the same knife in the common man’s hand can end a life. So also if the Guru has that life-saving power then he can provide salvation for his disciples.

R. Jawhrani:    This means it is necessary that every person should be fortunate enough to reach a true master.

Sai Sadhram:   Here I will give you an example of Sai Satramdas. When his child was suffering from severe incurable cough, a girl came to his wife and offered her a soup made by her mother which cured cough. The wife doesn’t aware that the soup was made out of rabbit’s meat. When a mother and daughter brought a soup, Sai Satramdas was sitting there. He looked around and saw the mother rabbit desperately looking for its child. He realizes that the young of that rabbit had been killed to make that soup. He immediately raised his hand and young one of the rabbit came out alive from the soup and ran to its mother. He told his son that out of love for you, your mother didn’t realize she is sacrificing the child of another creature. But since he has been saved, you will have to go. And his son passed away.

R. Jawhrani:    We have heard abut miracles and also read abut them in history. Do miracles really take place or it is just delusion?

Sai Sadhram:   No, these are not illusions, these miracles do occur. They do not occur in daily routine life. But only sometimes so that we should have more faith in Almighty. Just as the incident which occurred sometimes ago, that all the status of God, started drinking milk. There was the misconception making rounds that what can be gained from praying to a stone. But then God proved that I am also inside the stone. Just to increase the faith of people these miracles keep happening in nature.

R. Jawhrani:    The place where we get peace of mind, we call it a holy place; where we bow our head, we call it a temple. But what should be name of the place where our heart bows?

Sai Sadhram:   That place can we termed as Vaikunth, Heaven, where our heart bows and becomes one with the Lord achieving salvation.

R. Jawhrani:    Can we speak some topics relating to Sindh?

Sai Sadhram:   Definitely!

R. Jawhrani:    We call ourselves the inheritors of the culture of Mohenjo-Daro. But in some records of history it is mentioned that there is a vast differences in our language and culture and their language and culture. Then why till date do we call ourselves inheritors of Mohenjo-Daro? Why are we teaching this wrong history to our children? First of all I am not sure whether this is true or not, but I have read this somewhere.

Sai Sadhram:   With times the food, language, culture of people keeps changing. The history of Mohenjo-Daro is about 5 to 7 thousands years old. It has been 5000 years since it perished. But its culture dates back to more than 5000 years. We don’t know how ancient it is. Now even if we look at the culture and civilization of our own ancestors, we wills see that we aren’t following the same lifestyle which they followed. God knows what lifestyle our grand children and great grand children will follow. So civilization changes with time. So we are the inheritors of that civilization which has evolved our centuries. We had added some new customs and traditions while some older ones have been dropped. The only common thing of the past and present which I can see in the bullock cart. With times the culture and traditions changed, beliefs changed, customs changed, environment changed etc. so with all these there is bound to be a change in human being’s life.

R. Jawhrani:    In Sindh even today our Sindhi Hindus and Sindhi Muslims do visit each other places of worship.

Sai Sadhram:   Our great national heroes of Sindh who are reserved and honoured equally by Hindus as well as Muslims are Shah Latif and Sant Kanwar Ram. The remaining saints are reserved in their respective areas or districts or states. At many places in Sindh temples and mosques exists side by side, with a common wall. Even in Raherki Saheb there is a mosque just adjoining our temple.

R. Jawhrani:    We even consider our holy scriptures like Geeta and Quaran to be similar. Then during partition, why did these peaceful thoughts change into hatred in both the countries?

Sai Sadhram:   The politician created such an environment at that time. This was the biggest migration in the world. At that time in the boarder areas lots of bloodshed took place. But our Sufism has always been strong in Sindh, where Sindhi Hindus and Sindhi Muslims have always stayed together. Comparatively there wasn’t bloodshed in Sindh as compared to other areas although for some hours violence did occur in some parts of Karachi.

R. Jawhrani:    The very first instance of violence took place in Karachi.

Sai Sadhram:   There was curfew about one or two days in Karachi. The reason for this violence also can be attributed to the outsiders who came to Sindh, who are called ‘Muhajirs’. The Hindus were made to believe that the conditions were unpredictable and it was better they moved, while the Muslims were made to believe that this is their own country. Mahatma Gandhi conducted a Satyagraha for the Muslims not to quite India. Even there Mr. Jinnah in his very first gave the message that you are free to practice your own religion and can go to your temples.

R. Jawhrani:    Wasn’t Jinnah the one who proposed the two-nation policy?

Sai Sadhram:   No, wasn’t Jinnah, it was Ilam Iqbal who has written the song ‘Saare jahan se achha Hindustan hamara.’ Even in his thinking there was a change. He proposed that in the areas where majority are Muslims, the government ratio should be in favour of Hindus. It was the Britishers policy of divide and rule. They put in charge more Muslim rulers in places where there were majority of Hindus and Hindus rulers where there were majority of Muslims. Both communities always lived in peace and harmony in Sindh, but in the name of Two-Nation Theory Hindus and Muslims were separated. On the basis of religion a nation was divided into two.

R. Jawhrani:    According to you was this a misfortune or boon in disguise for Sindhi Hindus?

Sai Sadhram:   Whatever you call it, but the cosmos always blesses in inhabitance. If the Sindhi Hindus left from there, they move forward, progressed, achieved success in most every field and are respected and honoured all over the world. So if they were uprooted from Sindh, they were blessed with success in places wherever they went. Therefore Sindhis don’t have any complaints against God; in fact they are thankful to him for whatever they are today.

R. Jawhrani:    Our Shah, Sachal and Saami, who can be compared to Shakespeare and Tagore, were Sufi saints. Did Saint Kanwar Ram also believe in Sufism?

Sai Sadhram:   Yes, he did believe in Sufism and Sufi saints.

R. Jawhrani:    What does Sufism mean?

Sai Sadhram:   Sufism gives us a message to attain salvation. In the beginning they say Allah is the Master then later on they say that I myself am Allah. Sufism is a path of reaching God. In some religions there is a level, and they say beyond this level you cannot go. But Sufism says you can reach God directly.

R. Jawhrani:    In recent times, can Sufism or spirituality help in curbing corruption, terrorism, fights, destruction etc?

Sai Sadhram:   Sufism will automatically re-surface in such an environment. We have seen what whenever is the name of religion bloodshed takes place, human get fed up again gets on to the track of humanity where there is brotherhood, mutual understanding and co-operation. Therefore this is brotherhood; mutual understanding and mutual co-operation can be termed as Sufism, Vendanta, and Spirituality. All are one and the same which enable us to get on to the track of humanity.

R. Jawhrani:    In the end I would like to request you to give such a message for Sindh and Hind so that the people of both the countries live peacefully and prosper and both the countries flourish.

Sai Sadhram:   We should realize that God has made us humans so we should promote humanity by forgetting our petty differences and live peacefully. The message of love which is conveyed to us by the saints is what I would like to convey.

Once Saint Kanwar Ram along with Sai Satramdas went to a village. There at night they started their Bhakti. While standing they asked the organizer, I can’t see my other brother, haven’t they come? They asked him which brothers? He said that I can see all my Hindu brothers but where are my Muslim brothers? The organizer replied that it is because of the fight with the Chaudhari or the landlord. He said if that is so then it is your duty to patch up the fight and call them. Come on lets go, even I shall accompany you. So they started going towards them. On the other hand Muslim gathered at the landlord house and said that Bhagat Saheb has come but we were reluctant to go because of your fight with them. The landlord replied, I haven’t stopped you from going there. Come on lets go even I shall do with you. So both the parties met mid-way. Bhagat Saheb asked them what happened. They all replied we are all brothers and sometimes we fight like a small children and then we even patch up. But you are the messenger of God, we seek your blessing. They further said that if we have your blessings then there won’t we any fight between us. That day Bhagat Saheb asked them to embrace each other. This was the incident of a place in Tharu Shah. So till date no fights have occurred between them.

We have to follow this message of love of those great saints who says that Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christians are all one. We should all live peacefully and move forward as we all are humans.

R. Jawhrani:    Thank you very much.